Technique! Do you practice it?
In the past few years I've noticed that we seem to have several students coming up that like to fight but their fight is more brawling than technique. It seems like no one wants to recognizie a good technique. In the past we have produced some great fighters, but these fighters have always recognized good technique. It seems that has become a thing of the past now. If you score on someone with a good technique you had better follow it up with one are two more because as you backup to acknowledge the technique your opponent will hit you two are three times. In the past we called this dirty fighting and related it to fighters with no or very little technique.
It seems as though we're to the point of thinking we have to pound one another are brawl in the dojo rather than develop good strong fundamental sparring skills. If all that Grandmaster Mills ever did was pound my head in I don't believe that I would have ever developed the technique to have won as many tournaments as I have are to teach my students good fighting skills. I know alot of people wonder how Chuck Beal can fight the way he does. Chuck seems to many as a brawler because Chuck doesn't backup, but in reality Chuck has very strong technique. Why? Because Chuck was taught that way.
One thing about competing in tournaments is that to compete at the highest level you have to have great technique, whether it's kata, weapons or sparring. You also get to compare your skills whith other top quality martial artist's. Being a great tournament competitor does not mean that you're a great fighter, but most really good tournament fighters are just that GOOD FIGHTERS, in are out of the ring. I have alway's prided myself in being tough, but in reality without good technique most all of you guy's could have alway's been able to handle me. I spent many many hours training and working hard at developing good technique and finally I had the skills to hold my own with just about anyone I fought on the ring. I'm not writing this to build myself up but to stress to everyone how much more important it is to develop good fighting skills than it is to develop fighters. All of us if fed enough bull will grow an ego and if we fight enough we will become tough and probably become a decent fighter, but to become a quality martial artist and a great fighter we must develop good technique. Remember we are Martial Artist's and we're suppose to be builind martial artist's not fighters. Even at the golden gloves arena they spar and recognize the worth of building good technique. Those guy's for the most part don't take each others heads off but help each other get better and gain fighting skills.
What am I asking? Are you practicing drills that develop sparring skills. Are you practicing on when to explode on your opponent and when to move away and just not be their. Are you learning to cover distance, clear and score are are you just learning how to slug it out. Do you know to throw a spinning side kick to counter a roundhouse? Are you a martial artist with fighting skills or are you a fighter that tells yourself you're a martial artist.
I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea I'm not talking about the our schools but all Karate schools. I don't know if it's all the cross training or all of the young kids that earn a black belt and win a tournament and think that they are an instructor. All I know is that the technique that I'm seeing in today's karate isn't of the same quality of karate 10, 15 or 20 years ago. I want to see all of us a the Pete Mills Karate Schools develop top notch Martial Artist's like we have alway's done.
Gregg
It seems as though we're to the point of thinking we have to pound one another are brawl in the dojo rather than develop good strong fundamental sparring skills. If all that Grandmaster Mills ever did was pound my head in I don't believe that I would have ever developed the technique to have won as many tournaments as I have are to teach my students good fighting skills. I know alot of people wonder how Chuck Beal can fight the way he does. Chuck seems to many as a brawler because Chuck doesn't backup, but in reality Chuck has very strong technique. Why? Because Chuck was taught that way.
One thing about competing in tournaments is that to compete at the highest level you have to have great technique, whether it's kata, weapons or sparring. You also get to compare your skills whith other top quality martial artist's. Being a great tournament competitor does not mean that you're a great fighter, but most really good tournament fighters are just that GOOD FIGHTERS, in are out of the ring. I have alway's prided myself in being tough, but in reality without good technique most all of you guy's could have alway's been able to handle me. I spent many many hours training and working hard at developing good technique and finally I had the skills to hold my own with just about anyone I fought on the ring. I'm not writing this to build myself up but to stress to everyone how much more important it is to develop good fighting skills than it is to develop fighters. All of us if fed enough bull will grow an ego and if we fight enough we will become tough and probably become a decent fighter, but to become a quality martial artist and a great fighter we must develop good technique. Remember we are Martial Artist's and we're suppose to be builind martial artist's not fighters. Even at the golden gloves arena they spar and recognize the worth of building good technique. Those guy's for the most part don't take each others heads off but help each other get better and gain fighting skills.
What am I asking? Are you practicing drills that develop sparring skills. Are you practicing on when to explode on your opponent and when to move away and just not be their. Are you learning to cover distance, clear and score are are you just learning how to slug it out. Do you know to throw a spinning side kick to counter a roundhouse? Are you a martial artist with fighting skills or are you a fighter that tells yourself you're a martial artist.
I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea I'm not talking about the our schools but all Karate schools. I don't know if it's all the cross training or all of the young kids that earn a black belt and win a tournament and think that they are an instructor. All I know is that the technique that I'm seeing in today's karate isn't of the same quality of karate 10, 15 or 20 years ago. I want to see all of us a the Pete Mills Karate Schools develop top notch Martial Artist's like we have alway's done.
Gregg
Nice post … this should certainly stir a flame or two …
As you, Evan and I talked about the other night I agree that students need to be taught to honor points, but not all points and not all the time.
When I am teaching, I like most of us point out every technique the student lands to give them positive reinforcement. But when I am in the ring with another blackbelt I recognize only those techniques that would cause damage had they not been controlled.
Also as most of you know I have no problem with going hard … as long as it is agreed upon before hand. Sensei Ron Chesney and I normally go two or three points before a break but as I said, agreed upon before hand.
As anyone knows that has listened to one of my rants I do not think very highly of the tournament circuit. My tournament history consists of about 4 or 5 years in the late 70’s and early 80’s, a few pre pads, and most pre trophy … and believe me when I say, brawling in not new.
I became disillusioned with tournaments when I was almost disqualified for a groin kick … just couldn’t understand how you held an Isshinryu tournament without groin kicks … after that the target areas got smaller and smaller until it became a game of tag ….
Isshinryu as I was taught by Grandmaster Mills is low kicks, sweeps, hand controls with targets that include groin, kidney, spine … guess what I’m trying to say is that we had a lot less headhunters at that time …
When it’s all said and done I’m proud of the fact that at Pete Mills Karate dojos our main goal is to teach these kids how to take care of themselves not stroke our egos by bringing home a trophy.
Glad to see you posting and hope to see more ....
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Considering Master Gregg and I have had several discussions on the difference in our sparring philosophies, it is not hard to figure out who this post is aimed at. And I love it! Because everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is the perfect place to express them. I also thank you for putting this post up. I think discussions of this type are what we need to help us grow as instructors and to challenge each others thoughts and ideas.
I will be the first to admit that things have changed over the past 10 – 15 years. I will name some things that have helped changed it: Gracies, grappling, ground and pound, MMA, UFC, reality based, Stone Cold Steve Austin, IFL, WEC, in my opinion, there are more people training in some type of combat art than ever before. MMA is one of the fastest growing sports in the country. The chance of meeting a person on the street that is in some type of martial arts is growing, and guess what, they are all brawlers. The last few tournaments I have been to have been brawls more than the typical games of tag. And I for one am very glad to see it.
We differ greatly on the definition of Martial Artist. I feel that the martial arts are a way of life. It’s not who can run a kata and who can’t. It’s not who fights this way and only this way. It is a way living, breathing, speaking, playing, eating and praying. I think when people meet someone in the martial arts they should sense something different about them. I am not talking in a mystical sense. The walk and talk is different because we know and are part of something different; something that not everybody is cut out for. Also, fighting is just one aspect of the martial arts. Not everyone has the same fighting style. Just because someone’s fighting style is different does not make them any less of a martial artist.
In a conversation with Sensei Mike Allan last week, I made the comment that I am not training tournament fighters. My goal as an instructor is to make sure my students know how to protect themselves. Period. I could care less how many tournaments they are in or how many trophies they win. I want to know that when they need to they will be able to defend themselves. I am not naïve enough to think that karate or any martial arts is a guarantee that any confrontation they face will be winnable, but I do think that it gives them an advantage.
In conclusion, I think Master Gregg and I have done a good job of answering the Journey/Destination question. We are all on a journey going towards a destination. Our travels along the way make us who we are and how we look at things. Everyone has a different journey so everyone will have a different view point on life and the way things should be done. So who is right? We all are!
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International Fight League, World Extreme Cagefighting, the Six Million Dollar Man? Are these truly the direction we want to take our training?
It’s no secret that I hate Grappling, and not just because of Harold Long’s long ago proclamation that good fighters don’t go to the ground or the fact that I am old and my joints scream every time I move. It’s that on the ground I feel limited and more open to multiple attacks. I’ve seen it happen to many times where two guys are wrestling on the ground and one of them gets a boot to the head from someone in the crowd of onlookers. I’m also not a big fan of submission holds … Say Uncle worked in the schoolyard 30 years ago but not today.
That being said, do I think we need to train in grappling? Of course. We need to be prepared for anything that is thrown at us and with the popularity of ground fighting on the rise chances are good that if you get into an argument with someone you might find yourself on the ground. But let’s not confuse sport with martial art … I enjoy watching a good grappler, Master Ogle, Devon, Christian, and Randy amaze me with what they can do on the ground and I know a few collage wrestlers that would tie me into a knot. But I always go back to the wonderful class Sensei Cofer came up with where we rolled around in the parking lot .. grappling and asphalt do not mix well!
So how do we prepare?
1) AVOID - The first rule of Fight Club is TALK!!! Work it out or walk away ….
2) DISTANCE – Don’t be caught standing flat footed, chest to chest during a confrontation!
3) TRAIN TO COUNTER THE TAKEDOWN – Sprawl, throws, punches, kicks, knees and elbows … spend as much if not more time training for a takedown than you do once on the ground.
4) TRAIN TO REGAIN YOUR FEET AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE
Now I know you Grapplers are just chomping at the bit to lay into me but before you do seriously think about what true self-defense situation you would prefer to be on the ground than on your feet.
Looking forward to hearing your comments.
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Mike as you knoe I've said I hated grappling also. I actually started training in grapling in the early 90's but not serious because I didn't like it and really didn't know fun it was when you started training technique and not just rolling around.
In the past 2 years I've dug deeper into the grappling arts and practice some drills 3 are 4 times a week as well as watching training videos. I just feel it's adding that much needed addition to my whole martial arts game. Sambo has added that extra dimention to my workouts and is something that I really want to share with all of our students.
I felt about grappling the same as you do for a long time, but when you take the time to get down their and work submissions and escapes, sweeps and turnovers as well as the conditioning exercises you'll find out it's really no harder on you than standup fighting.
I think it all goes back to the original post, Technique do you practice it. The round game is all about developing technique and the more you have the better you are. I believe the same is true with standup fighting the more technique you have and the better it is the better fighter you are. I know from Brad's response he doesn't think technique has anything to do with being a good fighter, so why waste time practicing it. I just don't buy that theory because in that case it would alway's be the biggest,strongest and the best conditioned that alway's won. I believe that conitioning is #1 because if you don't have the conditioning it doesn't matter how much technique yu have. After that I think it's has to be technique are guy's of my size should just give up because we wouldn't stand a chance.
Sensei Brad when I originaly started this discussion I was in no way referring to you. I did have someone in mind but you were not him. I was really considering what I've seen out of today's martial artist's. We just disagree on technique as I think technique and conditioning means everything and not just being able to stand toe to toe and slug it out and have the toughest man win.
Gregg
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Hey guy's I was sitting in church this morning and the preacher was preaching about how Peter and Paul had the same goal or objective although they didn't go about reaching them the same way.
I posted earlier because I truly believe that if you practice good technique in kata, weapons and kumite you'll perform good technique. I started thinking thats my philosophy.
Brad you and Keith both have some very promising martial artist's at your schools. I can't think of anyone that would go to another dojo and not honor you with the wat they perform.
I guess in teaching I tend to gravitate more along the sport aspect of both kumite and grappling. Keith seems to like to take the katas and play with them and see what techniques he can find within them. Brad I believe you want to have your students in the best condition they can be in and teach them to fight like it could be their last time.
What's wrong with either way? Nothing as long as we teach them about Christ and to only fight when they are defending themselves.
I do remeber Rand at Tiger Claw telling me that a very well known instructor here in town said that he doesn't want his students to be able to fight. Guy's we teach what we know and do this to the very best of our abilities and our students show it every class. I do my best to honor Sensei in the way I teach as well as the way I conduct myself on an everyday basis, as I no you do to.
Guy's this is a heart felt post and I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'm proud of all of you guy's and I hope we see continued growth as a family.
I tell my students almost every class that they need to go vist one of the other schools from time to time to get to work with you guy's.
Brad I look at my own class and the instructors and see all the different philosophies that we have.
When Terry is healthy he teaches kata much like I do but Terry likes to mix it up when he kumites. He is as I would say a brawler because thats what works for him. Ron can do both, he likes to brawl with his dad and setup a work technique with me. Mike enjoy's playing with those sticks and usually is in the other room. When Mike does come out to fight he's without a doubt the toughest fight I have at my school.
I just felt like I needed to write this because I didn't want you to take my first reply to this post the wrong way. I love and respect all of you and am proud to call you my friends and I feel fortunate to be apart of such a great family of martial artist.
God Bless, you all
Gregg.
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Ok. “Hate Grappling” may have been a bit of an overstatement on my part meant to get a response, but it sounds so much better than “I’m to old and my bones will snap like twigs”. As I stated earlier I have the utmost respect for the conditioning, endurance, dedication and attitude that it takes to grapple. And twenty years ago I’d be right in the middle of it, all I’m saying is that above all else we have to teach the self defense applications of whatever situation we may find ourselves in. And in my opinion the longer you stay on the ground the more vulnerable you are.
To me the rules of self-defense are simple ….
1) Protect yourself.
2) Stop the threat as quickly as possible.
With this in mind Isshinryu will always be my first reaction. I’m at the point in my life where I don’t foresee getting into an altercation over anything that is not life threatening as opposed to my younger years where my ego would demand satisfaction of the slightest insult. That’s one of the reasons I spend so much time in the backroom leaning arnis … Modern Arnis as taught by Grandmaster Presas is a purely defensive style. It’s a softer style incorporating small circle jujitsu, locks and takedowns as preemptive actions before the “fight” actually starts … and I guess for some grappling with it’s submission holds is the same for them … but again I state “I don’t want to be on the ground.”
As for the original topic of training techniques I guess I fall in the middle. I do see the benefit of drills, although I have to be honest and say that I ran very few myself up until North Knox, but I also truly believe that there is no better training than standing toe to toe and swapping techniques. The biggest problem I see is when ego gets in the way and students aren’t allowed to experiment in the ring. That’s what our kumite is all about, learning what works for you, and being able to try new techniques and either they work or you get spanked. BUT … this cannot happen without honoring points!!!
Two cases in point for me are Master’s McMahon and Tolliver, both have fighting styles that confounded me at first because both make you have to think and work for a point. With both of these guys I have to think four or five techniques ahead.
On the flip side of that coin I’ve got my buddie Sensei Walker who does not give me time to think or plan, and barely enough time to react. With Sensei Walker it’s not a chess match, it’s checkers with me being crowed with that silly axe kick more times than I like to admit.
So is one approach better than the other? Nope … they all hit me .. and I use both approaches plus a couple more as the need arises.
The moral of the story children is …. Find what works for you!
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As a general rule Mike and I try to disagree as much as we can on our comments. Mainly this is to play devil's advocate and argue each side of the topic. But is this case I must agree with him totally. Not about being old and feeble. He still has me by about 20 years. But to the point of finding what works for you. As a karateka comes up through the ranks, they will get advise from everybody they come across. Some of that advise will we good some of it will not. Some of it will work for you and some of it will not. Don't be afraid to take someone else's advise. Take that advise and give it the old college try and if it works use it. If it does not don't.
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Well Put Master Gregg. When I first started a blog for the website I hoped that one of the things it would be used for was to openly debate our opinions of multiple martial arts and related topics. I think this one did just that.
As Instructors,we all have our own experiences and philosophies we bring to the table. We are not always going to agree, and that is OK. The important point is that we can all learn something from each other. One person's strength may be another's weakness. Together we can built an outstanding organization backed with knowledge and most importantly friendship.
I am looking forward to seeing you and everyone else at the Family Night on Thursday.
On a side note. You are going to have to do something to get Mike and Evan out of the closet. I think the term you used was "other room".
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